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Yasmeen Lari
As the architecture profession is constantly changing, we interviewed Yasmeen Lari, Pakistan’s first female architect, to understand the changes in our profession and our roles as future architects. Yasmeen Lari not only paved her own path, but continues to charge forward in defining what architecture should be doing for the world. Architects like Lari have shown what it means to be unapologetic, brazen, and dignified in the pursuit of change through architecture.
Taisei Manheim
You have had a remarkable career. First as a starchitect for 36 years, and then transitioning into more humanitarian work. We were wondering what you think the role of the architect is, and how it has changed over the course of your career as you've shifted your approach?
Yasmeen Lari
The role of the architect, I think has changed or should change. I'm not sure where it's changed so far, as much as I would like to see. But it should change. Because I think the world is very different from when I was trained. And as you must know if you've seen any of my work now, what I do now, and what I say now, that unfortunately, even today, architects wait for commissions to be provided to them so that they can design for somebody. They still love designing these mega structures and iconic structures. And I feel that that time is long past. I mean, I was doing all this in the 1980s, but I feel it's no longer the time to be doing all that. Because I think with climate change, with COVID-19, with rising disparities, with the poverty levels rising everywhere, things are really pretty, pretty disturbing. And architects I feel have to play a role in all this. They can't abdicate their responsibility and say, “we are only here to design for the rich”, because it should not be that way I believe. So that's where I am today.
Graana Khan
A lot of us are still in school while the COVID 19 pandemic hit us all, and we're all kind of deciding what role we will take as architects once we graduate. Was there like a pivotal moment in your career that made your transition from the previous work you did, like the Pakistan State Oil house versus some of the more traditional and vernacular work that you do now?
Yasmeen Lari
Yes, well, it didn't happen like a flash of light or something, it’s just that I decided that I want to do other things in my life. I was [in Lahore] for three years until the earthquake of 2005 happened, which was a major disaster for us. It really was the worst possible kind of disaster that could have ever hit any country really. And I think like most of the Pakistanis, and also from around the world, I also felt I had to do my bit. I felt I needed to go there, [but] I had no idea what I could do. I knew that doctors and surgeons and others could help because there were so many lives that were at stake. But I had no idea what an architect would do. But you know, when you try to do something, and you really sort of feel that this is a calling, or [that] you have to do it, you find ways to be able to help. And I thought the best way would be to use the debris. And really, I think for many of us, and particularly for me, it was a turning point in my life. because I'd never understood, never known my country. Never known there was so much poverty, never known there was so much misery that could be, and never known the state of women and what they were going through. So for me it was an absolute eye opener. I learned that if you do something, like [for] a cause, then there are so many people who will help you. So there's no reason for one to feel that you're doing it by yourself. And I didn't have to.
Taisei Manheim
One thing we love about your work is the collective effort of it all. It's not just you, but you're really engaging the community. We're wondering what that process was like engaging the community and how is the act empowering?
Yasmeen Lari
I mean, we saw with COVID-19, it didn't matter how many designer objects you had in your closet. It hit the wealthy, just as much as it did the people who had nothing or had no more than a roof over their heads even. So, we have to understand that whatever happens today is not just confined to one area in the world or one country in the world. It is something that's global now, and all of us are in it together. I think most of the universities and schools of architecture are still teaching about iconic architecture, about acting as a prima donna. I mean, I acted as one you know, something like 36 years [ago]. And so I feel that there has to be a shift in the way that we start. Even our how the courses are and how the teaching is going on and what we do. And I'm just very lucky again, because I'm a woman, I was able to go into women's quarters. But I was able to go and talk to them. I could understand them. And they're the ones who spearheaded so many of the things that I did, and whether it was up in the frontier where Graana comes from but also in the south which is Sindh where everywhere has lots of restrictions on women. But because I was a woman, I could really mobilize them, I could talk to them. And they were the ones who then took everything forward that I did.
Graana Khan
In many societies, women are expected to be the caretakers of the home but historically have never owned the homes or the property. You've done a lot of work with women that gives ownership and pride to the spaces that we also largely own. Could you talk a little bit about your project on the chulhas and how your experience, as the first female architect in Pakistan, has framed your approach to your practice?
Yameen Lari
Yeah, well, of course, I happened to become the first one because I just happened to graduate before anybody else. But I had no idea when I'd gone to study whether I would be the one. But working in disaster areas, and the humanitarian field is a different ballgame, of course, altogether from practicing architecture or becoming a starchitect. Because then you can have your ego and you can, you know, whatever, and you do what you want to do. I was very lucky I was able to get rid of my ego. I was willing to learn and see what was there and see how because I went there to help. I hadn't gone there to dictate to them. And I think the whole attitude of how you work in the field, when you're looking at disasters, or helping people to become productive, or empower them in some way; you really have to see what the conditions are and how you're able to help them to do that without imposing your own ideas and thoughts on them.
Chulhas is a very ordinary object, but it's the most damaging for women in countries like Pakistan and many others. Because they're on the floor you get lots of filth, and it's very unhygienic the way they have to cook. And then because it's an open flame, children can get burned. And, and so because I was working in the flood area, I decided it must be on a platform. They’re very inexpensive, but they save you a lot of trouble because when you have rising waters around you, then everything is elevated and safe. And so I did the basic design, but then they innovated on that and they made it a work of art. Every stove that you will see is a ‘designer stove’.
And above all it has brought so much dignity and respect to them. Just because they're sitting on an elevated platform, their lives have transformed because otherwise they would literally not be given any importance because they were sitting on the floor with all the filth. And now this earthen platform is like a throne for them. Because they can sit erect. If you look at the posture of women, it's just entirely changed. The women are just very proud now, they're sitting on this platform, they're giving out the food, they're cooking well. So I think we carry a certain responsibility to somehow bring about really transforming the way people do things, and especially the way women are treated or looked at. And I think through architecture, we can do all of that.
Taisei Manheim
You brought up the idea of sustainability which has many definitions depending on the circles. Could you talk about what you think is the relationship between architecture and climate change? And what does truly sustainable architecture look like?
Yasmeen Lari
Most of the time when we are trained, especially people who come from countries like mine and are trained in the West, we go back and think that perhaps we know better than anybody else. But that's not true. And the Western methodologies are not always the best ones. And I think especially now with climate change, and with COVID-19 I keep on saying that we need to go back to the traditional ways that I've experienced and seen in my own country. If you look at Peshawar’s narrow streets, it's got this kind of organic morphology, which is actually true for many other old towns in Pakistan as well. And it is called what I call medium density and low-rise kind of structures, which are really good for humans. We don't need to have cars everywhere we can limit them. And of course, my own BaSA (Barefoot social architecture), which is better for social architecture, that will also show you some pointers as to how things can be done. Because as I keep on saying, I need both ecological and social justice. If you have one, and not the other, then for me that doesn't work.
Graana Khan
You mentioned barefoot social architecture, a different approach to what we traditionally learn in school. A lot of the time and education we're designing at our desks, but we're hundreds of miles away from the site, or we never actually visit the sites we are designing for or meet the people that are going to be living in the spaces that we design. Could you talk a little bit more about the term ‘barefoot social architecture’ and what it means to you and your practice?
Yasmeen Lari
Over the years I've had a lot of opportunities to work in disaster areas and we keep on getting these disasters of the earthquakes. We can't stop it, of course, but we can mitigate disasters or at least the impact of them. Because as you know, and I keep on quoting this, that it's not the disasters that kill people, it's the buildings that kill people, especially in the case of earthquakes. So we carry a huge responsibility to design in a proper manner. And unless we do that people will suffer. And I also found that the approach that came with international assistance was not the right one. I call it the ‘colonial Western charity model’, which I think is very demeaning for our people, it's very destructive to our morale, and I think we should reject it completely. I don't think we should have this charity from anybody. And my view is that we have to now get people to empower them to make them strong, and also to give them the skills so that they can do things themselves. And it was tough in the beginning, because most of the INGOs and other NGOs believe in [charity], because see, even disasters are a big game to a lot of people, because there's a lot of money there. And I think money corrupts, everybody, unfortunately, however good they might be. So, I feel the least money there is, the better it is. So I'm a great believer in no money, because then that gives you a chance to be able to do things that you feel are really creative. Because then you've got to work with very, very limited resources. And I found it really nice to be able to not to depend on anybody, not to look for money, but to be able to train people who can then do things themselves, rather than waiting for somebody to give a handout. So the whole BaSA philosophy has emerged out of that.
I don't know whether you've seen my latest project in Karachi, which is the first ‘eco enclave’ of the city of Karachi and the historic core of the city. It's called the Rahguzar Walking Street. It's all about no cement and steel, it's all about making terracotta pavements, it's all about permeable surfaces where the water will evaporate in the surrounding environment, it's all about Miyawaki style forest. The payments are made by my women, who are the poorest of the poor. They were the beggars in the world heritage site where I worked and we trained them, and they earn a lot of money by making those terracotta cobbles. It's all the ancient craft that we're looking at. You have to keep on linking a lot of things when you're working. I feel that it's no longer appropriate only to be focusing on one unless it has large scale benefits for many of the other areas as well.